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==================================================================== (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari RoundTables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari RoundTables on GEnie are the *official* information services of the Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem in HALF DUPLEX) 800-638-8369. Upon connection, type HHH Wait for the U#= prompt. Type XJM11877,GENIE and hit RETURN. The system will now prompt you for your information. ==================================================================== ************ Topic 5 Wed Sep 07, 1988 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] (Forwarded) Sub: MultiDesk, from Codehead Software This topic is for user support and discussion of CodeHead Software's MultiDesk, the program that lets you load up to 32 desk accessories at any time, even while a program is running. 213 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 1 Wed May 13, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:15 EDT Ken, WordPerfect like CodeHeads are class operations who believe in customer service. If I ever have a choice of what software I use, or buy for my boss, and if I am still limmited to MS-DOS at work I will chose WordPerfect; just like I chose CodeHead for my ST stuff when possible. BTW guys How about a real time DA spell checker? >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 2 Wed May 13, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 07:43 EDT > WordPerfect like CodeHeads are class operations who believe in >customer service. If I ever have a choice of what software I use, or buy for > BTW guys How about a real time DA spell checker? > >>> Joe Meehan << > >---------- I couldn't agree more, but the CodeHeads don't have 400 bright, intelligent, young men and women all trained to answer your questions... The WordPerfect support crew is really something to SEE. Maybe when Atari sells 20 million of their new 'falcon' series, and CodeHead sells 50,000 copies of Calligrapher each month, they can do the same. Humm.. The idea of 400 'Valley Girls' on a support team is kinda interesting too... Grin. Joe, I REALLY would like to see the CodeHeads get permission to update and distribute something like Thunder. Since the company is still making it, but only for the Mac, they MIGHT be interested in a deal... how about it CodeHeads?? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 9 Sun May 17, 1992 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 18:43 EDT >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:34 EDT > >Thanks, guys. I'll call WP on Monday. I hope a)their Atari 800 number is still >working and b)they will still provide the upgrade. > >It certainly was decent of you to fix WP, Charles. I hope people realize what >a nice guy you are! > >Ken Van Dellen d8^) >---------- I concur with both a) & b) as well as the "Thanks, guys". And, doesn't everybody know? I hadn't upgraded before as a WP rep had upgraded my printer driver on a one to one basis. But I'll do it. Cumon 800 #!! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 10 Sun May 17, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:24 EDT Jack, I had a later post on WP. The number still works and they will upgrade. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 11 Wed May 20, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 16:04 EDT MEA CULPA -- MEA CULPA -- MEA CULPA (I sure hope this gets me outta hot water with the CodeHeads!) I've posted a couple messages regarding my trials and tribulations with ICD's Clean-Up and MultiDesk Deluxe. It turns out the problem was due to an inadquate MDX buffer size in MDD! Why Clean Up uses the MDX buffer is beyond me. I increased my MDX buffer to 128K and BINGO Clean-Up runs flawlessly. the trick was catching the fleeting message regarding the inadequate buffer size. At any rate, I'M NOT LONGER HAVING ANY PROBLEM WITH CLEAN-UP AND MDD. ;-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 12 Wed May 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:29 EDT Dave St., That doesn't make any sense at all, but if you're happy, we're happy. CleanUp has nothing to do with the MDX buffer. The only thing I can think of is that it's sending a message to some ACC and you have that ACC in your MDX folder. This would cause MDD to open the ACC to send it the message. But if the MDX buffer was not large enough to load it, an alert box would appear informing you. Aha....you're not by any chance using that resident program from DC that selects your default button in alert boxes automatically, are you? Naw...no one's reckless enough to use something like that for more than a few minutes. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 13 Wed May 20, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 22:18 EDT Sounds pretty strange to me, too... Cleanup doesn't have anything to do with the MDX buffer. --Doug ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 14 Fri May 22, 1992 B.STOREY [Bill] at 07:43 EDT That is a trick: catching the error message that flashes by in many applications. The programmer puts the message in, then forgets to put in a way to stop it so we can read it before it goes away. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 15 Fri May 22, 1992 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 16:34 EDT Heck, my MDX buffer is only 48K and I have never had a problem with Cleanup. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 16 Tue May 26, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 16:50 EDT John: Nope! No wierd utilities that select a default alert box selector. I know it defies logic, but Clean-Up now works flawlessly. Matter or fact I had upgraded to the latest version of Clean-Up (4.21) just to be sure it wasn't a programming flaw that was later "cleaned up" ;-) Just for grins and chuckles I tried changing the file extension on Clean-Up just to see if I could get it to run as an accessory but it choked. It appears that something in Clean-Up is reaching out and making some form of memory grab and MDD's buffer is standing in the way. If the buffer is large enough there are no problems -- too small and Clean-Up refuses to acknowledge the dialog boxc selector buttons. Although I run several programs out of the AUTO folder (UIS III, HotWire, HotSaver, PinHead (good stuff huh?), ICD AdSpeed, Copyfix, Desk Manager, and at times X_Mon) I have tracked the problem to MDD by booting a "clean" system with ONLY MDD loaded prior to Clean-Up (Yes, I powered down long enough). I still would like to know what the root cause of the problem is, but the present fix appears to have no ill effects. I would appreciate any light you might be able to shed on this one... Regards. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 17 Wed May 27, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:58 EDT Dave St., I'm confident that if I had about 5 minutes in front of your machine, I'd find the problem. There can be no conflict between MultiDesk and CleanUp. They have nothing to do with each other. Remember once again that a "clean system with ONLY MDD" is not clean unless there are no resident ACCs in MDD and no MDXes listed. As for the message stating you don't have enough room in the buffer, that's a GEM alert box and there's no way that it could "fly by" without being able to read it unless you're using some conflicting program. An alert box always stops for user input. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 18 Wed May 27, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 06:05 EDT John, Alerts 'flying by' sounds like DCNOALRT, which always takes the default exit from an alert, and which is one of the most dangerous programs I have ever SEEN, to have in a system! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 19 Wed May 27, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 06:48 EDT I asked this several weeks ago but the replies missed the target. Will the .acc version of Multidesk Delux work if called from within the Laser C shell? And will it work it work if Neodesk is loaded? I ask this because the earlier version will not work under these conditions. I.E., will the .acc version be able to load an .acc. under these conditions? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 20 Thu May 28, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 05:29 EDT Joe, I just tried loading an ACC into MultiDesk Deluxe while inside the Laser C Shell. It locks up just as it did in previous versions. I've got v1.1 of the Laser C Shell and I don't know if there's a more recent version. I dropped the use of this shell long ago because it is just too ill-behaved. Instead, (when I lower myself to using C <grin>) I use the Laser C compiler and associated tools but call them from a HotWire shell. The Laser C Shell uses illegal variables and techniques. This makes it unreliable and incompatible with MultiDesk and other resident software. There's nothing we can (or wish to) do about this. There are several other reliable alternatives that can be used for C development. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 21 Fri May 29, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 04:59 EDT Thanks John for your comments on the use of MultiDesk Deluxe with the Laser C Shell. Will MultiDesk Deluxe (accessory) work if Neodesk is loaded? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 22 Sat May 30, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 04:54 EDT John: I was aware that resident ACC's could create a definate conflict, but assumed MDX's did not present any problem because they load when requested. Will go back to MDD and configure MDD without my extensive TITLES.MDX list and see what happens. ========== Ron: NOPE! No DCNOALRT loaded here! Utilities like that SCARE me too! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 23 Sun May 31, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:02 EDT Dave, Normally MDXs are not called until you click on them. But if another application sends a message looking for a particular ACC, MDD will send it to the appropriate MDX if it's in the list. To send the message, MDD must load and init the ACC. It then dumps it back out. This scenario can cause problems if the application checks for the presence of an ACC and then assumes that it's still there without verifying it before each operation (such as Neodesk and its accessories). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 24 Thu Jun 04, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:54 EDT CodeHeads or anybody, Is there any way that DAs, either ACCs or MDXs, in MDD can interfere with a program? My MiGraph OCR has been acting a little hinky today, and they thought it might be one of my many DAs or AUTO programs, but the only DA I use besides MDD is Abbreviator. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 25 Thu Jun 04, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 19:56 EDT Ken, Welp....every DA is an island. :) It's definitely possible that accessories loaded into MultiDesk could do something weird to the system. MultiDesk Deluxe 3.4a is about as compatible as I know how to make a program; it's pretty unlikely that MultiDesk itself is causing a problem. But there's no way to predict conflicts caused by accessories loaded _into_ MultiDesk. If you're having trouble you should always try booting up with MultiDesk alone, with no accs loading into it -- resident or nonresident. You can keep the MDXs from loading by renaming your MDX folder, or by changing the MDX path in the Config screen and saving your config. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Thursday, June 4, 1992 4:17 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 26 Fri Jun 05, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:57 EDT Thanks, Charles. I didn't think the DAs in MDD loaded until I called for them, so I couldn't believe anything that ran through MDD could cause a problem. It sounds as though you're saying I was wrong. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 27 Fri Jun 05, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 11:42 EDT Ken, It is possible for nonresident DAs to become active even if you don't explicitly open them, in one of two ways: 1. If you use the "-I" option in your TITLES.MDX file (to Initialize a nonresident accessory). 2. If an outside application or DA uses the GEM appl_find() and appl_write() calls to communicate with a nonresident DA. If this happens MultiDesk Deluxe loads the nonresident DA, passes the message to it, then unloads it when it's finished processing the message. That's why I suggested removing all resident DAs AND making sure your nonresident DAs aren't read either -- just trying to cover all the bases. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Friday, June 5, 1992 8:37 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 28 Fri Jun 05, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:49 EDT Thanks for the explanation, Charles, and for the helpful suggestion. I don't really care to know a whole lot about what goes inside this marvelous gray box. I'm too busy getting with the software that makes it work. Sometimes, though, I guess we have to learn some of the technical stuff. I'll bet I wasn't the only one who didn't know the things you just told us, either! Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 29 Sun Jun 07, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 15:47 EDT After removing CALLUIS, as John suggested to someone, I find that my MDD bootup still looks for it. How can I tell it to forget it? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 30 Sun Jun 07, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:27 EDT Ken, Save your MLT file as MULTDSKx.MLT in the root of your boot drive, where x is the resolution number as described on page 31. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 31 Sun Jun 07, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 22:33 EDT Looking at these past messages regarding loading MDD with no ACC's or MDX's installed made me want something for the next MDD update, I'd like to see the ability to save, in an MLT, whether or not MDX's are installed. Maybe the path for MDX's could be saved in the MLT. That way, it could point to different folders based on your setup (a really nice added bonus) AND it could point to an "invalid" folder where there are no MDX's, resulting in a "pure" MDD. Live And Direct [6:11 PM-7/Jun/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 32 Sun Jun 07, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 23:02 EDT Rod, That ability is already in MultiDesk Deluxe. The MDX path IS saved in an MLT file; take a look at one, it's just a text file. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Sunday, June 7, 1992 7:59 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 33 Sun Jun 07, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 23:45 EDT I just looked at mine (with Maxifile). Wow! Does that mean I could change the order of loading by changing the text file? Who said a little knowledge is dangerous? <hehehe> Where's my EdHak? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 34 Mon Jun 08, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 01:46 EDT Ken, Yes, you can change the order in which the accessories load by changing the MLT file. Those three numbers are the sizes of the Reserve buffer, the MDX buffer, and the resident buffer. (If you change them, they do have to be four- digit numbers.) - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Sunday, June 7, 1992 10:35 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 35 Mon Jun 08, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 01:46 EDT Rod, We wrote page 12 especially for you. I'm hurt that you didn't read it. <grin> Kene, Yes, a little knowledge is dangerous. That's why we keep trying to everyone to read our entire manual. There's enough danger in the world already. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 36 Mon Jun 08, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:25 EDT I did a Save Setup, and MDD doesn't look for my deleted ACC anymore. I must have done the right thing. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 37 Mon Jun 08, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:17 EDT Thanks, John. You confirmed what I did. I had been trying to solve the problem by saving the configuration, but I had to save the setup. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 38 Mon Jun 08, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 07:48 EDT >That ability is already in MultiDesk Deluxe. The MDX path IS saved >in an MLT file; take a look at one, it's just a text file. Charles: Thanks, I didn't know. It should be very simple to create a 'bare' MLT file then, right? Live And Direct [11:56 PM-7/Jun/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 40 Mon Jun 08, 1992 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 19:35 EDT JOHN: I'm shocked that you would accuse ME of not reading your wonderful manuals! <g> While I may leap into a program WHILE reading the manual to start using it as quickly as possible, I do eventually read my manuals (I know how much work you put into them!). There's just so much information that it's very easy to forget things now and again. Oooh. Reordering accessories! Yes, a little knowledge CAN be dangerous! <"Danger, Will Robinson. Danger!"> Live And Direct [6:58 AM-8/Jun/92], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 41 Tue Jun 09, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:21 EDT There has always been a lot of confusion as to what happens when MultiDesk boots up and loads its "default" setup. I just looked in the manual to find the page to point out where this is clarified and I must apologize...it isn't clarified at all, so I'll spell it out here. When MultiDesk Deluxe boots up, it first looks in the root directory of the boot drive for MULTDSKx.MLT (where "x" is the resolution number as documented in Appendix B). If this file is not found, MultiDesk will load the setup that has been saved internally within itself. This setup is updated whenever you do a "Save" from the Configuration Box. In other words, there are two ways to create a default load. If you've got a default MULTDSKx.MLT file, the internal settings will not be used. This is why many people are puzzled when they "Save" from the config box but do not "Save Setup" to replace their MULTDSKx.MLT file. If you use MultiDesk in different resolutions (and you have different files you want loaded depending on the resolution), you should use the MLT file method. But if you use the same setup in all resolutions (or only use one resolution), it might be better or more convenient to always use "Save" from the Config box and never save a MULTDSKx.MLT file. These options are saved in both MLT files and the internal config: List of resident ACCs complete with full paths to their locations MDX path designator complete with wildcard extender Size of resident buffer Size of MDX buffer Reserve size These options are saved only in the internal configuration: Menu name Default path for resident accessory loading Default path for MLT setup file loading States of the following options: Names Return Auto-run Persist Query Sort Snap Timers Guides Thunder Alerts BFIX John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 42 Tue Jun 09, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:33 EDT John, Thanks for the clarification. The two kinds of SAVES caused me some confusion, but I stumbled onto the answer, as I do with software sometimes. Your manuals, which I do read, but don't always retain in my head, are probably the best I've seen. This little oversight is a good example of an author being too close to his/her work. You know what you mean, and it's easy to forget that the reader doesn't have your insights. Manual writers (writers of manuals) have to assume the reader knows little or nothing about the program. We appreciate your excellent online help. No question, this time!!<G> Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 43 Tue Jun 09, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 12:43 EDT Thanks, John. Ken (I have the record for being told "RTFM" the most by John.) Estes ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 44 Tue Jun 09, 1992 D.STMARTIN [Dave St.] at 14:39 EDT Anyone: Is there a file in the libraries that will upgrade MDD 3.3 --> 3.4? I have the files to go from 3.4 --> 3.4a but in order to do so you must first have upgraded to 3.4. Is the 3.4 upgrade a mail-in only deal or is there, in fact, a utility in the library that will do just that. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 46 Tue Jun 09, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 21:32 EDT I believe that the only reason to go from 3.3 to 3.4 is a compatibility problem with Warp 9. If you have Warp 9, you should have the 3.3 to 3.4 program. If you don't, you don't need it. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 47 Tue Jun 09, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:10 EDT Thanks for the explanation of how MDD does it configuring, John. I had finally figured it out on my own after much time spent wondering what you guys had had in mind with the way it saves its setup files. I'd like to see a single "save setup" option; what MDD has now is a little too confusing. BTW, the more I use MDD the more I appreciate the way it works. The "initialize MDX" option is a wonderful touch. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 48 Wed Jun 10, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 00:13 EDT I seldom have to think about MDD. That's transparent! That's the way programs should be. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 49 Fri Jun 19, 1992 PDC.SW at 03:22 EDT When running Steno from Multidesk the fonts get set to a small size (looks like 6 point) when the settings in Steno say 10 point. Is there any reason for this? ...oscar ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 50 Sun Jun 21, 1992 GRMEYER [Gordon Meyer] at 19:23 EDT Greetings! I currently have Xcontrol set to auto-initialize in my MDD setup. I do this so I can have the window/sound settings I want w/out having to waste memory by having Xcontrol active at all times. However, I've noticed that when I have MDD load an alternate setup via hotwire chain, then re-load the default setup upon exit from an application, MDD seems to go thru the whole auto- initialize routine all over again. This results in a bit of delay in getting back to the desktop. Since the -I option is stored in the TITLES file there doesn't seem to be anyway to avoid this. Right? (other than having xcontrol always loaded I mean) Gordon R. Meyer 5:01:32 pm CT Sunday, June 21, 1992 ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 51 Mon Jun 22, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:34 EDT Gordon, One solution to your problem is to have two MDX folders, but that's probably not very desirable. You'd probably end up keeping two sets of the same MDXs, wasting a lot of memory on your hard disk. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 52 Tue Jun 23, 1992 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 00:50 EDT In reading old messages about TOS 2.06 (since I just had it installed), I read about problems with MDXTITLE.PRG -- so I went and tried it and had a crash after trying to save the changes I entered. Has there been a fix to this since the message I read was posted (probably in April). If so, where can I find it? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Monday, June 22, 1992 9:06 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 53 Tue Jun 23, 1992 A.CASSINO [Andy] at 01:11 EDT Dear CodeHeads, I have MultiDesk Deluxe (version 3.4) and Warp 9 (version 3.6). I have WARP9_CP.ACC installed as an MDX. After the first time I install a font with WARP9_CP.ACC after booting, I get a message that says, "Ouch! Someone or something grabbed the system vector at $00000084 after this nonresident DA did! Better not open any other MDX's". I generally ignore this warning <grin> and continue along my merry way, with no apparent ill-effects. Am I living on borrowed time? Signed, Lucky So Far (aka Andy Cassino) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 54 Tue Jun 23, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 02:49 EDT As far as I know there's no fix to the title program. The file it creates is straight ASCII. You can make your own file with any text editor. The specs for the file are in the manual. _I_ keep a backup of my title file in another folder under a different name. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 55 Tue Jun 23, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:44 EDT Jason, Thank you for reminding me. I've meant to upload a new version of MDXTITLE, but haven't yet done so. Andy, Yes, you're living on borrowed time. That message means that something is possibly corrupted in your memory. That fact that you have no "apparent" ill- effects doesn't preclude the possibility that there are "unapparent" ill- effects. A crash could happen any time after that message, possibly losing some of your work. It says on page 10 of the Warp 9 manual that "it should be loaded as a resident accessory". Perhaps we should have been stronger about this and stated "it should NOT be loaded as a non-resident accessory". John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 56 Tue Jun 23, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 21:35 EDT John, Suggested wording for the Warp 9 Control Panel. It MUST be loaded, either as a desktop accessory, OR as a RESIDENT MDD accessory. Surely THAT is specific enough... ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 57 Tue Jun 23, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 23:37 EDT John, It's ironic that Andy brings up that error message because this past weekend I had a similar one, except my system vector was $000004E6 (I think that's the correct number of zeroes). In any case, I traced it to NeoControl Panel which I had just installed as an MDX. I have MultiDesk 3.4a. What's $000004E6? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 58 Wed Jun 24, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 03:57 EDT Jason, Strange, I have been using the MDXTITLE program with no problems... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 59 Wed Jun 24, 1992 D.LIVINGST11 [Big Earnest] at 05:20 EDT Ed, $4e6 is one of the vertical blank interrupt routines installed by a program. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 60 Wed Jun 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:32 EDT In case anyone missed the discussion last fall when MultiDesk Deluxe was release, or has not read the README!!!!!! file: DO NOT keep any Neodesk accessories in your MultiDesk MDX folder! The reasons for this are technical, but suffice it to say that their mere presence in the MDX folder will cause problems, even if you don't open them. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 61 Thu Jun 25, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 21:51 EDT >In case anyone missed the discussion last fall when MultiDesk Deluxe was >release, or has not read the README!!!!!! file: ...or has read the README file but has since forgotten what was in it... > DO NOT keep any Neodesk accessories in your MultiDesk MDX folder! Thanks, John. :^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 62 Sun Jun 28, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 12:48 EDT I'm having trouble with a couple of accessories used as either an ACC or an MDX within MDD and I thought what better place to mention it. Both programs, Min_Cal and Convector, exhibit the same problem, becoming active when selecting MDD from the menu bar after either has been run once. This pretty much destroys the usefulness of MDD once these programs have run. So for now, they're gone. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Pat ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 63 Sun Jun 28, 1992 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 17:23 EDT Same here, Jeff. I've been using the MDXTITLE prg. without any trouble, too. Anna ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 64 Sun Jun 28, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 18:32 EDT Charles, I have the same problem that Pat mentioned in message 62 with HCopy when used as an accessory (either MDX or ACC) in MDD. Once it is selected, everytime you select MDD after this, HCopy will show up. Only a reboot will solve it until the next time HCopy is selected, then the same problem. BTW, HCopy is in the libraries and the extension can be changed from PRG to ACC. It works fine as a regular accessory. ................................Vince ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 65 Sun Jun 28, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 20:00 EDT Vince, Some accessories are not written to follow the correct way. And not all accessories like to be made into a MDX or loaded by another program. There are several other accessories that will not work correctly with MDD.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 66 Sun Jun 28, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 20:27 EDT Pat, Thanks for mentioning that; I'll have a look at it. I know what Convector is, but what's Min_Cal? - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Sunday, June 28, 1992 4:03 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 67 Mon Jun 29, 1992 A.CASSINO [Andy] at 00:43 EDT John, Oh, I got the impression from the "NOTE" on page 10 of the Warp 9 manual that the Warp 9 accessory should be resident for performance reasons, not for system integrity reasons. Thanks for clarifying that! Andy ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 68 Mon Jun 29, 1992 PDC.SW at 01:22 EDT Atari-ST RoundTable Category 32, Topic 5 Message 60 Wed Jun 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:32 EDT > DO NOT keep any Neodesk accessories in your MultiDesk MDX folder! John, what about Steno? When using it from MDD, the fonts are a smaller size, but running it outside of it the size is fine. What causes this and is there any fix? (Selecting SET PREFERENCES in Steno causes the font to get put into the right size) oscar ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 69 Mon Jun 29, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:20 EDT Pat, MultiDesk has a switch built in to attempt to combat persistent ACCs (those that take over MDD's slot). Try holding Alternate when selecting MultiDesk from the menu bar. This has been in MultiDesk since the very first version, but hasn't been needed for years because MultiDesk was improved shortly after that to solve most of these conflicts. We'll be looking into these problems, but perhaps the Alternate key can eliminate the need for rebooting for those having these problems. John P.S. Have you tried this with the "TIMERS" button enabled? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 70 Mon Jun 29, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:16 EDT Oscar, When you load an accessory into MultiDesk from a location other than the root of your boot drive, it may not be able to correctly find its associated files. There is no documented "correct" way for an ACC to find its files, so each author seems to use his own method to do it. It sounds like your STeno is not finding its config file until you "SET PREFERENCES". You should try various locations of its config file until you come up with the correct one. In general, to get an ACC to find its files you should try: 1. Put the files in the same directory as the ACC. (This should work with _all_ CodeHead accessories, e.g. G+PLUS.ACC/ASSIGN.INS). 2. Put the files in the root of the drive containing the ACC. 3. Put the files in the root of C. 4. Put the files and ACC in the root of C with a different extension on the ACC so that it isn't loaded as a normal ACC. 5. Give up. This accessory is too stubborn. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 71 Mon Jun 29, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 23:38 EDT Charles @ CodeHead Tech >... but what's Min_Cal? Thanks for the quick response. Min_Cal is an accessory subset of Andrzej Wrotniak's El Cal program. The accessory worked fine with MultiDesk through version 3.3. It died after updating to 3.4 and also with 3.4a. Convector I just got. (Sorry, the price got me) John, Yes, I tried holding the Alternate Key before I ever bothered you. It doesn't help. That's why I thought this was so wierd. The TIMERS button, I didn't try. I thought it was for event-driven resident accessories. I'd really like to leave these as MDXs if I have a choice. I only tried them as ACCs to be thorough. Thanks, again... Pat ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 72 Tue Jun 30, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:19 EDT Oscar, Set up STeno the way you want, then save the configuration (alt-G will work). Make sure you save it to the copy of SENO.ACC that is running under MDD, and the font size should be right the next time you reboot. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 73 Tue Jun 30, 1992 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 07:45 EDT John, STeno has no separate config files; it saves the config into itself (like many CodeHead products do!). gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 74 Wed Jul 01, 1992 R.SNYDER6 [Roger] at 00:01 EDT Can I get MDD to boot up with Thunder! installed, but turned off? Saving MDD's configuration does not save the status of the Thunder button. --Roger ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 75 Wed Jul 22, 1992 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 20:08 EDT Here's a question with (hopefully) a simple answer: How come I need to have a disk in Drive A before MultiDesk will load resident accessories from the Harddrive? Today I accidently didn't have my boot disk (nothing on it but BootTyme) in Drive A, and MultiDesk stopped dead, telling me that Drive A wasn't responding. I've got my configurations set for drive C:\ for the DA path, Setup file path, and MDX path. Simple answer? -Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 76 Wed Jul 22, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:57 EDT Gerry, Do you have an ACC that looks on drive A for anything? -- Harry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 77 Wed Jul 22, 1992 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:03 EDT Nope. The only resident DAs I have are HotSaver, SI Ramdisk, and Warp and all of them have their associated .RSC or .CFG files on C:\ also. -Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 78 Thu Jul 23, 1992 K.CAVAGHAN2 [OakSprings] at 04:33 EDT Gerry, I have SI Ramdisk in MultiDesk as well, and it looks to drive A whenever I boot up. Try deleting it from your normal.mlt (the one that MultiDesk uses to load all of it's acc's) and see what happens. Kent @ OakSprings Software ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 79 Thu Jul 23, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:00 EDT Gerry, If your floppy drive is being accessed by MultiDesk during bootup, it's because you told it to. <grin> Your MD paths may be set to drive C, but your setup file may loading an accessory from drive A. Try looking at your MLT file (it's a text file). It might give you a clue. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 80 Thu Jul 23, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:27 EDT Better yet, dump SI Ramdisk and get CodeRam (CodeHead Utilities Disk). Shameless plug, and thanks for all the great software, CodeHeads.. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 81 Fri Jul 24, 1992 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 00:25 EDT Hmmm, John. Here's my whole .MLT file: C:\MULTDESK.MDX\*.AC? 0000 0094 0067 C:\MULTDESK.MDX\RESIDENT.DA\SI_RAM.ACC C:\MULTDESK.MDX\RESIDENT.DA\HOTSAVER.ACC C:\MULTDESK.MDX\RESIDENT.DA\WARP9_CP.ACC That's it. No "A:\" nowhere. (Yes, Ron, I know, I know... but I just get locked into old habits and my comfort level stays high that way...) -Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 82 Fri Jul 24, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 01:19 EDT I have noticed that when running Quick Index (1.8 or 2.2) that the DMA 64K Read test will cause a crash (bombs) when I have MultiDesk 2.2 installed. I pulled all my ACCs except MD and all ACCs from MD. I removed all auto prgs except WELCOME.PRG and Mouse Boot 3d.5E. Still crashed. I am using a MSTe with TOS 2.05. The internal HD is a Maxtor 7120 formatted and partitioned with HDX 5.0. I am using ADHI 5.0, booting from the HD. This is then only thing that I have seen that conflicts with MD. Is there a problem or is there something unique with Quick Index? I probably should upgrade to MDD. Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 83 Fri Jul 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:39 EDT Gerry, OK, now you must look for reasons why one of your ACCs may be accessing drive A. The answer is within, and it's up to you to dig it out. HotSaver doesn't look at any explicit path so it's off the hook. I'm not sure about SI_RAM because I haven't used it enough. Have you checked your default path in WARP9_CP.ACC to verify that it's not set to drive A? If you have to, remove them one at a time to determine the problem. Only you can find the answer. Mike Allen, Thanks for the report. I don't recall any other reports of crashing with Qindex's DMA read test. It's certainly never crashed for me on any TOS verison with any version of MultiDesk. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 84 Fri Jul 24, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 08:50 EDT Gerry, As someone else mentioned, I'm pretty sure the SI RAM Disk program looks on drive A: (maybe for its resource file or config file). But I haven't used it in ages since I got the CodeHeads RAM Disk. :-) Try booting up with only the SI-RAM ACC (and no MultiDesk, etc). Or remove SI- RAM from your MultiDesk config and boot up to see whether it still accesses drive A:. -- Harry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 85 Fri Jul 24, 1992 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:19 EDT In other words, "Use the force, Gerry!"... right, John? (I'll give it a try and report back). Thanks to you, too, Harry. -Gerry ... A short time later... *** MAN AM I EMBARASSED *** (You medium-res users may now turn your monitor a bright shade of RED...) Turns out that during some futzing around within the past few months I must've hozed my SI_RAM configuration file, and the sucker was using its default... drive A... God, I'm sorry. Thanks for the patience, you guys. -- Gerry "DUH" Leone ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 86 Fri Jul 24, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:20 EDT Gerry, Have you been loading anything into the ramdisk from Floppy, and still have SI Ramdisk looking at the A: drive? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 87 Sat Jul 25, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 05:14 EDT Actually I think that was why I stopped using SI-Ram, it keep looking to drive A... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 88 Sat Jul 25, 1992 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:10 EDT Me too, Jeff! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 89 Sat Jul 25, 1992 T.EVANS21 [<Ted E.>] at 08:57 EDT Yeah, Get the CH's ram disk and be done with all those problem Ram Disks... <-:}Ted{:-> ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 90 Sat Jul 25, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:15 EDT Gerry, Check that SI_RAM.ACC setup. Just because you are loading the DA from the hard drive doesn't mean it isn't looking for something on the floppy. I also agree about the ramdisk being out-of-date. There are many others that are better, including some that are freeware. But the Codes' own ramdisk is the best. AL ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 91 Sun Aug 09, 1992 T.EVANS21 [<Ted E.>] at 17:51 EDT _ALL_ Is there a way to re-order the MDD-MDX display.. What I mean is: can you sort/shuffle the order to get the .ACC's the way you like them to be listed each time?? Am I making sense?? Thanks, <-:}Ted{:-> ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 92 Sun Aug 09, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kene @ SFRT] at 19:00 EDT Order your TITLES.MDX the way you want it and don't select the SORT OPTION in the Config??? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 95 Tue Aug 11, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 21:17 EDT It's been discussed before that there's a way to set up MDD and your desk accessories so that you don't have to have duplicate DAs and MDXs on your hard disk. Can someone please tell me how this is done? I can't figure it out! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 96 Tue Aug 11, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 23:41 EDT Ed, The way I do it is I keep all my ACCs in my C: root directory. Then for my MDX path I use C:\*.AC?. So it picks up all my ACCs, whether they have an .ACC or .ACX extender. No dupes! - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 97 Wed Aug 12, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:33 EDT Ed, You can set your MDX path to the root of drive C, but that would be silly since you'd then be able to load non-resident ACCs that are already resident in the desk dropdown menu. You can also load "resident" ACCs (Load Acc) from your MDX folder (it doesn't matter if it's still available as an MDX), and you can load an ACC as an MDX (Load MDX) from any location. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 98 Wed Aug 12, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:54 EDT John, I guess I'm silly, since my MDX path points to C:. ;^) Just because you CAN load resident ACCs doesn't mean you HAVE to! You can also use C:\*.ACX, which would not show normal resident ACCs, though it would still show ACCs loaded into MultiDesk. - Terry - ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 99 Thu Aug 13, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 00:33 EDT Oops...forget what I said about the root of C. If you use a wild card for your MDX as Terry suggested, it makes a lot of sense. <grin> John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 101 Sun Aug 16, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 14:05 EDT I'd like to use "Install", Tom Hudson's screen dump program from Antic. Would it be best as an ACC or an MDX with MDD, or should I keep it as an outside ACC? I guess it has to stay resident, so one of the ACC options is probably required, but It would be nice to use it with MDD. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 102 Mon Aug 17, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 02:03 EDT Ken, When in doubt, experiment. See if it will work as an MDX first, then try it as an MDX with the Control-I option of MDX Title Maker. XCONTROL.ACC will work this way and it conserves memory. ===Tomas=== August 16, 1992 @ 22:32:20 pm PDT ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 103 Wed Sep 16, 1992 C.ROSE4 [RAGE] at 01:41 EDT I'm having a problem with MultiDesk 3.4, NeoDesk 3.0x, Warp9, and Notator SL. When I run MD, ND, and W9 everything goes along fine, but as soon as I plug in the Notator copy protection key, NeoDesk won't auto load. I get a message that reads, Unable to locate NEODESKH.RSC, and then it aborts. If I then run NeoDesk from the GEM desk top, MultiDesk won't funtion properly. And after all this, if I remove the Notator key and reboot, NeoDesk still won't load, and MultiDesk functions incorrectly, if at all. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 104 Wed Sep 16, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:21 EDT Rage, It sounds like you're running up against the same old malfunction in GEM (or STARTGEM) auto-loading. Neither the GEM desktop nor STARTGEM are reliable ways to auto-start programs because they do not wait for all of the ACCs to finish loading before running the autostart program. This is not the fault of MultiDesk and there's nothing MultiDesk can do to stop it. Boot up without trying to auto-load Neodesk and I think you'll find your problems will disappear. Then take the problem to Gribnif and see if they have any suggestions. The only reliable way to auto-start a program on any version of TOS is by using HotWire. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 105 Thu Sep 17, 1992 C.ROSE4 [RAGE] at 01:34 EDT Thanks John, I'm sure that will take care of the problem. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 106 Sun Nov 08, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 15:29 EST John, Another weird one. The DMA 64k read test in Quick Index 2.2 trashes the resident file names in MDD 3.4a. Stripped the system, etc. 4 meg MSTe, TOS 2.05, AHDI 5.0, Maxtor 7120S (BGM partitions). Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 107 Mon Nov 09, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:14 EST Mike Allen, You didn't mention which drive(s) you were using for the DMA test. I tried A and various hard drive partitions and didn't have any problems. I suspect that AHDI 5.0 might have something to do with it. If it is somehow trashing the names of MultiDesk's accessories, I'm afraid there's nothing we can do to stop it. I don't have any systems here with AHDI on them so I can't really test it here. Has anyone else here experienced this problem? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 108 Tue Nov 10, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 00:15 EST John, If I run the DMA test on the A: drive it works ok. If I run it on the C: or E: partitions it trashes the the resident names in MDD. If I run on the D: or F: partition, it doesn't even run - just goes off and then returns with a 0% answer. Now the interesting part - if I run the A: drive first and then the C: or E: partitions without exiting QINDEX then there is no trashing of the resident names. D: and F: still act the same. You are probably right - AHDI 5.0 and/or the BGM partitions. I've asked questions about AHDI 5.0 in the ATARI CORP ON-LINE category and, after long and snippy cage-rattling on my part, got a "Everything's wonderful with AHDI 5.0" answer. Maybe someone from Atari will feel fit to address this question here. It is no big problem in itself, how often do I need to run QINDEX? It just makes me wonder what else may be lurking under the surface waiting to bite me. Thanks again for your always prompt and informative answers. Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 109 Tue Nov 10, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:43 EST Mike Allen, I just thought of something that might be causing the problem. Apparently, Quick Index is reading sectors into a buffer and it may not be taking into account that BGM sectors are twice as large, 1024 bytes (or maybe even larger on your BGM partitions). This could have the effect of overwriting memory past Quick Index. Depending on how your memory has been fragmented or maybe you've loaded an MDX setup, this could be within MultiDesk's memory. Believe me, this has nothing to do with MultiDesk. But I would highly recommend that anyone with BGM partitions avoid using the Quick Index DMA test. We don't have the source code to Quick Index (and Darek lost it himself <grin>) so this cannot be fixed. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 110 Tue Nov 10, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 19:04 EST Now if Darek would 'lose' the sources for WinDoze. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 111 Tue Nov 10, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 22:49 EST John, Thanks - I kinda wondered about the BGM partitions (yeah - the sector size is 1k) - that's why I mentioned them. Like I said, how often do I need to run QINDIX? Oh, about every Warp9 upgrade. 8^} thanks Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 112 Tue Nov 10, 1992 J.NESS [Jim] at 23:50 EST Mike Allen - You might want to use NBM, in the libraries here, as a substitute for Quick Index, if QI causes problems for you. NBM does similar tests, but the disk test uses standard GEMDOS file calls, and does not care what size sectors your drive may have. -JN ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 113 Wed Nov 11, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:59 EST Mike Allen, You can definitely run Quick Index to test Warp 9 if you want. Just don't use the DMA test. Warp 9 doesn't affect it anyway. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 114 Wed Nov 11, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:17 EDT Mike, I don't believe that they have done anything to speed up Warp 9's writing of text to the screen for a while, but I still hope they will 'tweak' something and get another 1000% or so somewhere. Grin. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 115 Fri Nov 13, 1992 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 01:59 EST CodeHead, I am enjoying the heck out of MDD. It is very nice to have access to accessories without having to reboot. My question... I don't know if ya'll have tried the file in the GEnie library called GEM_Sound. It replaces GEM activities with DMA sounds. It is quite nice. It works fine with everything, except when booting. When MDD initializes XControl, it kicks the GEM_Sound CPX in, which has to be at least initialized for the program to work. MDD tells me that vector $000008 has been taken and that I should not load an MDX. (I hope I got that number right.) I hit OK to continue. Everything seems to work fine, even when I select an MDX. No problems, just that warning box in the beginning breaks the rhythm of the auto-load. Can you try this program out and see if there something I can do to fix this? I have it auto loading after all my CodeHead stuff. Should I put it before? Is there anybody else out there using GEM_Sound and MDD? Thanx! - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas November 13, 1992 - 12:39:12 am P.S. For your troubles, you at least get to have fun with an interesting program. :-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 116 Fri Nov 13, 1992 M.ALLEN14 [Mike Allen] at 03:14 EST Kyle, I'm using GEM_Sound and MDD 3.4a. I have tried a bunch of things (Xcontrol as MDD resident and as normal ACC, W9 in and out, etc.) and I haven't seen your problem. Wonder if you have some other auto program/acc that is interfering. I'm running on a 4 meg MSTe with tos 2.05 What machine are you using, and what ACCs/Auto prgs and what versions? Mike Allen ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 117 Fri Nov 13, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:34 EST Kyle, If you're getting the message that a vector is being stolen with an MDX, it means that it's not safe to use that ACC as an MDX. In this case, it's a CPX that's loading into XControl. It also means that this CPX is stepping outside of its bounds as a CPX and should have been either an AUTO program or a regular ACC. MultiDesk is telling you that you should run XControl as a resident accessory. You can choose to ignore this message and you may never have a problem. Or you may have a crash later, losing valuable data. The choice is yours. I'm sorry, but MultiDesk is not responsible for this problem and is simply doing what it's designed to do. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 118 Fri Nov 13, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 20:02 EST Unless of course the MDX is my CONDUCTR.ACC. It looks for a cookie signalling that my TSR MidiOSEX is resident and then procedds to call code in the TSR to set vectors in the TSR. MDD will give ya the 'ouch' message, but it is safe to load in & release the Conductor as a MDX. Note: This is a special case accessory. It doesn't actually steal any vectors itself. It just calls the correct TSR routine to set the TSR's vectors. John, if there is something about MDD that I've overlooked... please correct me. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 119 Fri Nov 13, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:26 EST Kyle, GEM-Sound did that on my TT system, too. I took Xcontrol out of MDX status and made it a resident DA inside MDD and that seemed to fix it. BTW, you don't save much memory by making Xcontrol an MDX; CPX modules (unless they are set for resident: Yes status) aren't actually loaded until you double- click on them. Having Xcontrol as a resident MDD DA makes it pop up a lot faster and with a lot less drama, espcially if you have a lot of CPXes like I do. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 120 Fri Nov 13, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:12 EST Notwithstanding the legalities of the GEM Sound CPX, I believe the docs are pretty clear that it needs to be resident in order for GEM Sound to work. As for memory consumption, yes, CPX modules require very little memory, but the XControl Panel itself requires a fair amount of memory. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 121 Sun Nov 15, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:09 EST Kevin, Yes, that's correct. I shouldn't have said that the "vectors have been stolen" message _always_ means a problem. In the case of your ACC and some others, it may be perfectly all right. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 122 Sat Nov 21, 1992 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 05:31 EST How does one set up MD to always load certain ACC's as Resident. Every time I set it up the way I want it such as with WARP_9 as resident, it is gone the next time I reboot. It's no doubt simple but some times it seems that the simplest things with these computers are the most difficult. Thanks. -Barry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 123 Sat Nov 21, 1992 T.ZENTHOEFE1 [Tom Z.] at 08:27 EST Barry, look on pages 8 and 16 of the Multidesk Deluxe manual. On page 8 you see the main MDD dialog box including the button that says Save Setup. On page 16, you will see a picture of the Configuration editor, including the Save button. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 124 Sat Nov 21, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:48 EDT Message: 122, left on November 21, 1992 From: A.B.SMITH [Barry] How does one set up MD to always load certain ACC's as Resident. Every time I set it up the way I want it such as with WARP_9 as resident, it is gone the next time I reboot. Barry, You need to save your setup! See your manual for: * Save Setup (page 12 in my manual) * Auto Load (Resolution-Dependent Setup Files) (Page 31 in my manual) >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 125 Sat Nov 21, 1992 C.HERBORTH [-Chris-] at 23:51 EST Does anyone have any suggestions for using MultiDesk with MiNT? I'm getting quite addicted to multitasking... ;-) -Chris- ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 126 Sun Nov 22, 1992 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 13:17 EST Mike, I tried XControl as MDD resident, and all was well. :-( Why the sad face? That means I will have to give up GEM Sound because I don't care to burn 100k on XControl Panel. I autoboot Hotwire, LGS, FormDoIt (maybe Let'em Fly if it's in English now! I think it's better), SerialFix, WrapFix, Maxifile, MDD (of course), and Warp9/Warp9 Control Panel. Oh yeah, I also load CodeKeys. Any sound like a trouble maker? Anyone, I have a question concerning CodeKeys and MDD. Can I link a MDX to a CodeKey file? I have an ACC called AreaCode that the programmer gave some CodeKey files with. I tried to LNK it, but when called from MDD, the CodeKey file is not called. Is there a missing communications link between the two programs or am I doing something wrong? Help! Terry, GEM Sound seemed to work pretty fine just by initializing the XControl Panel at bootup. Only problem was the boot process halting because of MDD's dialog box. Not that I mind the warning. I am happy it does it. John, Thanx for the info.! Always quick with an answer. :-) - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas November 17, 1992 - 1:48:30 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 127 Sun Nov 22, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 15:11 EST I suspect that you can only link Area Code when run as a program. But you can probably install the CodeKey macros in other .Key files _if_ you want them that badly. TOS needs (if it's possible) a way to tell if an Accessory is installed. And this will probably start a flamewar but Atari should have tried to buy MDD and then code it to work like the Apple Menu Items under Mac System 7. Anything is a DA at that point. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 128 Mon Nov 23, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 04:12 EDT Kyle, FormDoIt has been implicated in a number of problems. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 129 Tue Nov 24, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:49 EST Kyle, The conflict is not with XControl itself, but with one of your CPXes. Perhaps it's one that you don't really need to use. Regarding CodeKeys, there's no way for it (or any other program) to detect the opening of an accessory. The KEY file for Areacode is to be used when it runs as a program. Kenne, What you described is the way MultiTOS applications are handled (listed in the ACC menu). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 130 Tue Nov 24, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:26 EST But... but... I'll need a Falcon to run MultiTOS!!! Now, I saw the Falcon at TCN the other day during the party. With the 4 track direct to disk recording through software it looked like a nice investment. But having learned my lesson with my first ST I now skip hardware generations. So, can you say? Which Codehead products are MultiTOS compatible? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 131 Tue Nov 24, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:26 EST Kenne, Actually, Atari has indicated they'll release MultiTOS to the public domain for 68000 ST[e]s. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 132 Tue Nov 24, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 23:04 EST That's not what I heard in the MultiTOS topic. I'll play it as it lays. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 133 Tue Nov 24, 1992 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 23:33 EST As far as I know Atari has NEVER said they were going to release MultiTOS for anything toehr than 68030/040 machines. They specifically don't want to have to deal with support problems when people crash mutiple programs running on 68000's w/o hardware protection. In all honesty, I can't blame them. It would be nice if they'd license the 68000 version to a third party. Like the CodeHeads. -Tom McComb {11:05 pm} Tuesday, November 24, 1992 ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 134 Tue Nov 24, 1992 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 23:47 EDT MultiTOS will be available for the TT. mike.k ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 135 Wed Nov 25, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:09 EST >SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] >So, can you say? Which Codehead products are MultiTOS compatible? Well, I don't think we can say yet. But, there IS a very popular document processor that has been upgraded to take advantage of a multi-tasking environment. (hint, hint) ===Tomas=== November 24, 1992 @ 20:56:03 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 138 Wed Nov 25, 1992 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:33 EST All right!! An upgrade to CodeHead Ed to work in a multi-tasking environment!!! :-) Was I close? <GRIN> ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 139 Wed Nov 25, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:08 EST I had gotten some reports from Comdex that Atari would release MultiTOS to the masses for 68000 machines. I've since learned that those reports were in error, and there are currently no plans to release it for anything other that 68030 (or higher) machines. ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 140 Thu Nov 26, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:11 EST No matter. There are viable alternatives. Depends on your definition of viable, though. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 141 Thu Nov 26, 1992 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 14:59 EST Kenne, Thanx for the information. I hope there is way to tie a .KEY to an MDX at least. It seems that code could be written between MDD and CodeKeys to do this. CodeKeys monitors what MDD is loading, either ACC or MDX, and load the appropriate .KEY. The CodeHeads have a nice little system together with LGS, Hotwire, Maxifile, CodeKeys, and MDD. A lot of those programs have communications between each other in some form or fashion. Maybe something can be worked up with MDD and CodeKeys. I'll read some more responses. :-) - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas November 25, 1992 - 6:01:26 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 142 Thu Nov 26, 1992 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] at 18:42 EST >J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:49 EST > >Kyle, > >Regarding CodeKeys, there's no way for it (or any other program) to detect the >opening of an accessory. The KEY file for Areacode is to be used when it runs >as a program. Maybe not an ACC, but how about an MDX? When MDD is told to open an MDX, it could check for CodeKeys in memory, and say "Hey! I am opening an MDX with the name of AREACODE.ACC. Do you have a KEY file for it? If so, load it." I know. Sounds simple, but it's you guys that know how hard or easy it is to do it. - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas November 26, 1992 - 2:55:46 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 143 Thu Nov 26, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 19:38 EST I like that, Kyle. I think I asked that question before, myself. If I didn't consider this message a "me too!" ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 144 Fri Nov 27, 1992 D.CHARTER at 19:53 EST I just started experiencing a new problem to me. I looked in the manual (but may have missed it), but couldn't find a solution. If I select "Load Acc" nothing happens. I have to load my ACC as a MDX. Is this a known problem that you can tell me what to change, or do I need to start playing with my Auto programs and Accs. I know it used to work, but do not know when it quit - so I don't know how many things I need to check. Duane ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 145 Sat Nov 28, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:47 EST Duane, If you click on "Load ACC" and _nothing_ happens (not even a flicker?), you've got a conflict. If you remove everything and it still happens, then you should recopy MultiDesk from your master disk. I suspect you've got something installed that affects the way the file selector works. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 146 Sat Nov 28, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 12:26 EDT Duane, Just a wild guess, but do you have RAM reserved for any additional accessories? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 147 Sat Nov 28, 1992 D.CHARTER at 17:43 EST John, I sort of thought it would be a conflict from something I recently changed. The only thing I get is that the "Load ACC" does highlight when I press the left button, but nothing else happens. I will do some checking and post what I find the conflict is. Thanks for the help. Joe, I might have, will have to check that out. Thanks. ...Later... I still cannot load an ACC file. I booted only with Deskmanager and Multidesk. Is there any know conflict with ICD boot software? I also cannot load a setup file - I get two bombs. When I tried to load Warp9 as an MDX, I got an error saying somebody or something stole vector $00000084 ...do not attempt to load an MDX. I know it is not Multidesk; I unhooked by hardrive and booted of Floppy only. It loaded fine and I could load ACCs. I even copied that Multidesk copy to my hard drive...no help. I either have a computer problem or a conflict with my ICD/Toadfile 44+. I am going to read all the messages in the catagory and see if I can find any clues...but help would be greatly apreciated. Duane ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 148 Sat Nov 28, 1992 D.CHARTER at 18:11 EST Update to my problem loading an ACC... While reading the previous messages, I noticed that MDX's still are capable of affecting operation even when not activated. So I went and changed my MDX directory to C:\ - and ACC's load just fine. Now to find out what I changed recently that caused this problem. Duane ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 149 Sat Nov 28, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 23:18 EST Duane, Usually when you get that error - 'Somebody stole the vector...' it is usually something that is a MDX that should not be there. Do you by chance have X- Control in as a MDX and you are trying to use GEMSOUND?. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, November 28, 1992 - 10:59:14 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 150 Sat Nov 28, 1992 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:59 EDT Duane, I use ICD BOOT 6.0.5, and MultiDesk. TOS 1.4, 4 meg 1040, and have no problems loading an .ACC. I have a FULL complement of AUTO and .ACCs, both within, and outside MultiDesk.... Check your Multi-Desk config file.... ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 151 Sun Nov 29, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 00:44 EST Duane, The maximum number of items (MDXs and ACCs combined) that MultiDesk Deluxe can display in its scrolling list is 96; it sounds like you've reached the limit and MD is refusing to let you load any more. It's probably time to go through your MDX folder and remove a few of the accessories you don't use very much. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Saturday, November 28, 1992 8:12 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 152 Sun Nov 29, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 02:21 EST Or maybe you could put the 'extra' mdx's in a different folder and install MDD inside itself, with the paths in the nested MDD set to the new folder... I think, not having tried this yet, waiting for a rainy day to play with it. Ok, ok, so I've had MDD for a whole year now, make that a real frog-strangler of a rainy day. <g> ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 153 Sun Nov 29, 1992 D.CHARTER at 10:00 EST To All: I have MANY ACCs in my MDX folder - so it was difficult to find the problem. As it turned out, Charles was correct. I knew there was a limit, but did not realize MultiDesk would act up if I 'overloaded' it...my fault for not paying enough attention to the manual. The problem started after I returned from WAACE and loaded all my new programs and accessories. I guess this drove it over the limit. I have now made a new directory Extramdx for all the ACC that I only use once in a great while. Everything is great. Thanks for all the help. Duane ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 154 Mon Nov 30, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:41 EST Duane, My copy of MultiDesk Deluxe did the same thing. I'm not at all inexperienced with MDD, but it had me stumped. I installed a new copy and it was OK. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 155 Tue Dec 01, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:34 EST Charles, I had hit the limit of 96,too, and I am suitably embarrassed to report that the limit *is* mentioned in the documentation. I *write* these things for a living, and now I have to remind myself to RTFM.... :) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 156 Thu Dec 03, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 22:43 EST Atari hasn't really dealt w/ support anyway. Why would it matter in this case. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 157 Sun Dec 06, 1992 D.SHORR at 18:31 EST Hi CodeHeads, I've got a question about MultiDesk's method of ensuring that accessories find their resource files; this only seems to work if the resource file is in the same directory as the acc. I thought that the rsrc_load function also goes thru the current search paths before failing. This doesn't seem to be happening if MultiDesk is doing the work. I tried this with the only two accessories I have which use RSC files, MemFile and Steno. I set the PATH var to where their resource files were hidden; I then launched a program so that the new environment would be in effect. When I attempted to load the accs from within MD(their RSC files are now in another directory), they both couldn't find them. I then ran an auto program which can edit the desktop environment; this time the accessories loaded fine(outside of MDD). Could you explain what's going on? Dave ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 158 Mon Dec 07, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:24 EST Dave Shorr, There _is_ no method of ensuring that accessories find their resource files. The only method I know is trial and error. Usually, keeping the RSC files in the same directory as the ACC works just fine, although not always. Apparently, for some reason you don't want to do this. The path-searching during resource loading is done by the operating system. Presumably, it obtains the environment variables only once at bootup. I think that if you have an AUTO program which sets the "PATH=" environment to where you want it, your RSC files would be found in the path(s) defined. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 159 Mon Dec 07, 1992 D.SHORR at 19:52 EST John, I know there is no way of guaranteeing that accs find their rsc files; but, the rsrc_load function will also look in the search paths defined by the PATH variable before giving up all hope. MDD doesn't seem to let the OS attempt this step. I tried this from both the desktop(with the help of an AUTO program that could modify the desktop environment) and within a program; in both cases the acc failed to find its other file. Without MDD the acc was able to load successfully; I could not test this from within a program for obvious reasons:)). The only reason I was doing this is because STeno 2.00 could not install itself from your ramdisk program. Curiousity made me try this with my only other RSC-requiring accessory, MemFile 3.0<g>. My 'solution' for the Steno problem was to just have it rely on the copy of STeno present on my C: partition; as long as the desktop creates the PATH=C:\ string, it will be happy:). Dave ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 160 Tue Dec 08, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 19:54 EST Dave Shorr, I'm not sure why ACCs loaded into MultiDesk would not find their RSC files in the PATH environment. Perhaps Charles could shed some light on this. I don't think there's anything being done intentionally to inhibit this. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 161 Wed Dec 09, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:44 EST John E. and Dave Shorr, The three STenos I run find their resource files without any problem in C:\RESOURCE\ via GEMENV.PRG, which runs in the AUTO folder. These are run outside MDD, but I put one of them inside MDD right now to see if it found the RSC file and it, too, had no problem. All my MDD DAs find their RSC files in that location, too. I can't find any evidence that MDD causes any problem with the operating system's environment handling. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 162 Wed Dec 09, 1992 ST.REPORT [Ralph] at 07:35 EST Al, the only time I ever saw that particular message was if the computers memory was heavily fragged and/or not given back to the system. A reboot cures that. MDD is top notch all the way. Ralph @ STReport International Online Magazine ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 163 Wed Dec 09, 1992 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 12:24 EST If MultiDesk cannot find an accessory's resource file in the same path, it simply passes the rsrc_load call on to the system. It doesn't seem that this should cause the rsrc_load to fail; next time I look at MultiDesk, I'll test this. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech Wednesday, December 9, 1992 12:06 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 164 Thu Dec 10, 1992 D.SHORR at 20:27 EST Well, I did a little more 'testing' with the environment problem and _was_ able to get MemFile and STeno to find their resource files when loaded within MultiDesk. When placed into a root directory which was pathed, the rsc file was able to be found; if it was in a subdirectory, MemFile and STeno would complain again. I tested this by adding a path string(PATH=C:\MULTDESK.MDX or PATH=C:\MULTDESK.MDX\) from within HotWire! and then launching a program. I then attempted the load from within MDD(the acc copy was located on my ramdisk). Strangely enough, STeno would find its RSC file on the root of C: even though it was not pathed(I'm using the Show System CPX by Dieter Fiebelkorn) at the time. Now I doubt MDD is causing the problem(which leaves the Gribnif DA's:)): both MemFile and STeno will leave my system in an unstable state if they were unable to find their resources at install time(one example: can no longer access MDD). Anyway, I see enough of paths in those autoexec.bat files of those 'other' computers I have to use at work<grin>; I'll just leave it the way I have it;). Thanks for the help guys. Dave ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 165 Fri Dec 11, 1992 STARFALL [Alan] at 09:23 EST I did some testing with a quick test ACC I cooked up. It showed the current PATH, and tried to load an RSC file. The PATH was null for the copy of MDD loaded by the Desktop at bootup. A copy of MDD run as a program reflected the PATH set by HotWire. This makes sense, since applications get copies of the environment, and changes to another copy won't affect them. In any case, it didn't seem to matter. After doing rsrc_load(), there were four checks for the RSC file via Fsfirst(): The root directory of C:\ The folder from which the ACC was loaded (the current default directory?). The root directory of the current default disk. The root directory of the boot drive. Like I said, the PATH didn't seem to matter. This is with TOS 1.04. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 166 Fri Dec 11, 1992 D.SHORR at 22:16 EST Alan, Gribnif released a freeware TOS patch program called Shel_fix (file#14580) which corrected bugs in the shell functions(one of which rsrc_load uses); these bugs would only appear when a shell was in use. I believe HotWire! also has this fix built-in to its own code. I tried both HotWire! 3.0 and Shel_fix 1.3 to no avail. I used the MemFile 3.0 and STeno 2.00 accessories for testing. There was a paragraph in the Shel_fix docs that may explain this 'problem': PATH specifies the paths that TOS normally looks for things like resource files. It is important to note, however, that constructing your own PATH environmental variable from within a shell does not affect where TOS looks for resource files because it keeps its own internal idea of what PATH should be. My version of shel_find(), however, does not use the system PATH variable, it uses the one passed to the executing program. Dave ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 167 Sat Dec 12, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:20 EST Alan, That sequence of path-searching corresponds with the Atari's documentation on the subject. Thank you for testing this and offering us your report. Dave Shorr, HotWire does not "fix" any "bugs" in TOS's shell functions. We are not aware of any bugs that needed fixing. Gribnif's philosophy on the shell function is (was) different than ours and Atari's. Our philosophy (and Atari's) is that when a program acts as a shell, it is that program's responsibility to handle all "shell" calls from other programs. For instance, if the user selects "OUTPRINT" from Easy Draw, Easy Draw makes a shell call to run OUTPRINT. HotWire intercepts the shell call and when Easy Draw terminates, HotWire runs OUTPRINT. If a shell does not intercept this call, the desktop (in its "shell" capacity) will handle the call. But this won't happen until the currently running program (alternate shell) terminates. It is (was) Gribnif's contention that this is a bug in the operating system, so they wrote SHEL_FIX to "fix" it for everyone. We found SHEL_FIX.PRG to cause problems with some programs and don't guarantee our software to run with it installed. Current versions of Neodesk have this shell handling built-in so I'm sure they recommend discontinuing use of SHEL_FIX.PRG also. I'm unaware of the path-handling features of SHEL_FIX.PRG. John P.S. Please do not read any flames or criticism into this message. I've tried very hard to simply document facts. I'm not finding fault with Gribnif, just stating a difference in philosophies. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 168 Sat Dec 12, 1992 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 17:55 EST Sheesh, John, you're getting too P.C. for us these days. You were much more fun when you made comments with reckless abandon. ;^) ((( Terry ))) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 169 Sat Dec 12, 1992 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 18:57 EST Once burned, twice shy... ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 170 Sat Dec 19, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 02:59 EST John, I've found a conflict between MDD and the TurboASM here in the ST RT libraries. I'll detail more later because I don't feel like retyping my whole message since my system bombed before I could save it. :( It seems that TurboASM is loading a debugger which grabs vectors. The conflict results in TurboASM *NOT* being able to load in a *.SRC (source code) file without bombing (address, illegal inst, or bus error). Any help would be appreciated. Hint hint... for patch to MADMAC.PRG 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') 8') --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 171 Sat Dec 19, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 03:52 EST Kevin, Since we last talked about MadMac, Charles and I tested the version we're using. It's version 1.07 from Atari (74172 bytes long) and no longer has the PC-relative bug. The patch I had worked up was for an earlier version (1.05), which still has another crashing bug with INCLUDE files. Contact Atari and get 1.07. I don't remember exactly where and when we got it. Perhaps it's available for download in the Developer's RT. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 172 Sat Dec 19, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 05:57 EST John, I've got 1.07, but it doesn't seem to like forward branches at all. :( --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 173 Sun Dec 20, 1992 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:03 EST Kevin, Then we must have patched our version. See E-Mail. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 174 Sun Dec 20, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 20:49 EST Thanks John, My Seagate ST57N or whatever just went flaky on me last night. So I stopped at CompUSA this morning before church and picked up a Puma SyDOS (Syquest) 88Meg removeable with case, ps, drive :), and 88meg cart for $499 + tax. I'm currently trying to rebuild my setup to get back to where I was... I just d'loaded Aladdin (was munged on my HD & floppies) and I'm preparing to fix this @#$@. Boy has this been a hectic day. :( Guess I won't get a floptical as soon as I thought. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 175 Mon Dec 28, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:51 EST Kevin, Bet you didn't get a whole lot out of church with all of that computer stuff going through your head. Probably should have waited until after church.<G> Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 176 Tue Dec 29, 1992 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 11:56 EST Ken Van, But if I waited until after church, the store would've been closed. :) The store hours are 11am to 4pm on Sunday. With all of the music & all at church, you're guaranteed to forget about the SyQuest at least for a little while. :) Boy those services can be long (~3 hours). --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 177 Fri Jan 01, 1993 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 15:22 EST \\\--- I didn't realize I had this topic IGNored. I guess it says something about the hasle-free usage of MultiDesk. What am I being told, when I control-right click on the items in the menu? It looks like it might be useful. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 178 Fri Jan 01, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:43 EST Gerry, When you Control/LeftClick on an item in the MultiDesk window, you'll see internal info about the ACC. With MDXs, you'll only see the amount of memory that the ACC consumes. With resident ACCs, you'll get internal addresses that are only useful for debugging, as well as the size, and the type of event(s) that the ACC watches for. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 179 Sat Jan 02, 1993 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 00:15 EST \\\--- Is there anyway to print labels that include only: First Name / Last Name Street Address City, ST, Zip and excludes all of those company/spouse fields? \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 180 Sat Jan 02, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:17 EDT Message: 179, left on January 2, 1993 From: GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] Is there anyway to print labels that include only: ..... and excludes all of those company/spouse fields? Gerry, This looks like an escaped message from the CardFile topic. The only way I know is to leave those fields blank to begin with. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 181 Sat Jan 02, 1993 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 12:04 EST \\\--- Joe M: Oops! Aladdin indigestion. Thanks for the info. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 182 Sun Jan 03, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 13:04 EST John, thanks for the Control+Left Click info. I may find that stuff usefull for debugging accessories. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 183 Mon Jan 04, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 16:03 EST Does MultiDesk Deluxe reset the screen colors after exiting a DA? I was trying to reset the colors with the Control Panel CPX. I set it fine, but when I exited back to MDD, the colors reverted to what they originally were. I'm using a monochrome screen, btw. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 184 Tue Jan 05, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 05:43 EST Alan, If you are running the Control Panel as an MDX, MultiDesk will undo most if not all of its settings upon exit. This is necessary with MDXes since they could do any number of things to the system. If MultiDesk did not restore vectors and other things there would be major problems. The restoration process is basically the same as what happens on a "Clear All" with resident ACCs. If you want changes to remain in effect, you should install ACCs as resident. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 185 Tue Jan 05, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 23:03 EST John -- That last response you gave to Alan (about MultiDesk undoing system- wide MDX settings upon exit) suddenly cleared away the last cloud in my mind about whether accessories should be MDXes or residents. I finally get it! -Gerry ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 186 Wed Jan 06, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:49 EDT >If you are running the Control Panel as an MDX, MultiDesk will undo most >if not all of its settings upon exit. This is necessary with MDXes >since they John, I run the Atari Control Panel (I don't like Xcontrol), as an MDX, with the initialize option. I haven't seen any sign of anything getting reset. What were you referring to? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 187 Wed Jan 06, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:36 EST Ron, I don't know specifically that MultiDesk is undoing color settings when MDXs run. I just wanted to comment that _if_ someone is experiencing symptoms of settings reverting after the use of an MDX, it's caused by the way MultiDesk handles (and is supposed to handle) MDXs. In some cases, the only way to know for sure is through trial and error. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 188 Sun Jan 10, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 09:55 EST No, I was using the CPX.ACC as a resident ACC, not as an MDX. I'm not sure what's happening. I tried setting and saving the screen colors in the Control Panel, and rebooted. As MDD loaded the resident ACCs, the screen briefly flashed the changed colors, but reverted back. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 189 Sun Jan 10, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 11:15 EST Alan, You don't have GET_DEFS, or some other ACC that doesn't show in the drop down menu (nor MDD's menu), installed do you? ((( Terry ))) P.S. How's the new XYZ coming? :^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 190 Sun Jan 10, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:09 EST Alan, Perhaps you have something else installed that is reseting your colors after XControl is finished. Have you tried it with nothing but MultiDesk and XControl installed (no other AUTO programs, ACCs, MDXs, or auto-start programs)? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 191 Sun Jan 10, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 14:15 EDT Alan, Is sounds like you have something loading that is causing its own default colors to be set. What's in your MDD? ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 192 Thu Jan 14, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 18:29 EST I have just purchased CardFile 4 and EdHak 2.3, can they be run from within MMD? Should I run them as resident or MDX or should I run them outside MMD completely from their own DA slot? Thanks for any suggestions or personal experiences. === Joe Rogo === Thursday, January 14, 1993 6:29 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 193 Fri Jan 15, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 00:09 EST Rogo, EdHak will run fine as an MDX. Please see your EdHak manual for more information regarding various configurations and options using it as a program or accessory. Sorry, I don't yet have Cardfile, so don't know. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 194 Fri Jan 15, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:45 EST Rogo > Should I run them as resident or MDX or should I run them outside MMD >completely from their own DA slot? I would always try running the ACC as an MDX first. Keep in mind that any work done in the ACC must be saved before closing the ACC. This is the same as if you were running a program from the Desktop. Certain ACCs, like XCONTROL, that serve to configure your computer can be run as an MDX as long as you enter a [Control I] with MDX Titler to cause it to initiate. Almost anything else can be run resident within MultiDesk Deluxe. I only run ACCs outside of MultiDesk that I like to turn off and on when I boot (with DeskManager). Don't forget, PopIt is the perfect complement to MultiDesk Deluxe. ===Tomas=== January 14, 1993 @ 20:49:26 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 195 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 03:17 EST Here's a strange one. I just got a new TT and have been doing a lot of playing around. This is my problem. With Warp9, Multidesk, and Xcontrol loading (Multidesk is laoding Warp9 and Steno) the right scroll bar on the top window is not being set to my custom colors (TT med rez.). I checked the control panel and the colors are set properly. If i close the windows and reopen it everything is peachy. I tried the same setup wihtout Multidesk (ver 3.4) , loading Warp9 and Steno normally and everything is fine. Anyone got a clue? Help. Jim. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 196 Fri Jan 15, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:07 EST Rogo, >I have just purchased CardFile 4 and EdHak 2.3 Me too! :) Both of them have the ability to send text directly to an application without going through the clipboard, and they have to be resident ACCs for that feature to work. Other than that I don't think there's any problem with running as MDXs. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 197 Fri Jan 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:48 EST My authorized dealer told me recently he runs his computer almost naked, when I told him 4 megs of RAM sometimes was barely enough with WordFlair II and Pagestream. I use several CodeHead (and LGF) utilities, and have been thinking of getting a couple more. Of course I can always use DeskManager to disable some if I need to. I understand that the memory used by MDD is going to vary with which ACCs and MDXs we're using, but it would be interesting to know how much is taken by the other utilities. Some cut back to a base level after running, I believe, so that would save some RAM. Is this information in the docs? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 198 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:06 EST Jim Renner, Maybe your window is opening before XControl has a chance to set the colors. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 199 Fri Jan 15, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 10:41 EST Ken V., Just hold down the Control key while clicking on a desk accessories name in Multidesk Deluxe. - Mel ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 200 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:53 EST Ken Van, We generally do not document the memory requirements of our utilities because it has a tendency to change. The back of the HotWire manual says it only takes 44K. That was true at one time, but HotWire now takes almost 100K. If you list specific programs, we can tell you how much they require (approximately). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 201 Fri Jan 15, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:22 EST Joe, I run EdHak within MDD as a resident for my term programs and some others. I run it as a MDX for someother programs. I use Hotwire to switch between different setups before running programs. (I use to use Superboot for this purpose.) Remember, if you use it as a MDX then save before exiting. *******Brian********* Written on Thursday 14 January 1993 at 08:00 p.m. AST ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 202 Fri Jan 15, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:15 EDT Jim, Can 't help with your messed up color problem, but running both STalker and STeno in MDD is not recommended. If you do this, you can't use STeno as a capture buffer/editor for STalker as only ONE MDD .ACC can be active at a time. Move one (doesn't really matter which) outside MDD. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 203 Fri Jan 15, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:05 EST >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:48 EST > >My authorized dealer told me recently he runs his computer almost naked I used to run my computer, naked, but my joystick kept getting in the way. ;^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 204 Fri Jan 15, 1993 W.DAVIS20 [Bill] at 22:59 EST Rogo, I have CardFile running as an MDX. It works fine except for one feature. That is the send feature. I think with a bit of effort I could get that to work right too. Bill D. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 205 Fri Jan 15, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:17 EDT Ken, I have MultiDesk Deluxe, PopIt, STalker (2000 line buffer), STeno (130k buffer), AdSpeed CP, Maxifile, LGS, CodeKeys, Spooler Manager, a 66k ramdisk, and 131k spool buffer (CodeRam), HotWire, Warp 9 and miscellaneous other AUTO programs, patches, etc. loaded on my 4 meg machine, and with Aladdin active, still have 1.8 meg free. Load 'er up! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 206 Fri Jan 15, 1993 J.RENNER1 [Jim] at 23:35 EST John, that is what i thought at first but Xcontrol is running outside of MDD and the rest of the windows is "painted" with my custom colors only the right scroll bar is the same old speckled gray. I have tried everything, but it looks as though MDD is at fault. Unless of course Atari broke their own rules with TOS 3.06 or Xcontrol. Jim. ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 207 Sat Jan 16, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:56 EST Jim, You probably already realize that each shaded can bar can be configured with XCONTROL, right? Just trying to mention the obvious. ===Tomas=== January 15, 1993 @ 21:44:43 pm PST ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 208 Sat Jan 16, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 04:02 EST Ken Van, That can't be TRUE about your 'authorized dealer'! Atari won't let their dealers run their computers unless they wear at least -some- clothing! %^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 209 Sat Jan 16, 1993 STARFALL [Alan] at 08:28 EST I found the problem. It's Warp 9. If you have a picture background, Warp 9 forces the colors back if you try to change them. / / * / Alan * * ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 210 Sat Jan 16, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:52 EST Thanks, John. I'll make up a list for you. I own most of your products, I think. Terry, >I used to run my computer, naked, but my joystick kept getting in the way. >;^) Terry! Go stand in the corner! This is a family program. <G> I'll have to ask Drys if he at least keeps his shorts on. Ron, I don't think I have problem with any programs except those that use the SLM804 Atari laser printer, which requires a lot of my RAM. I like the printer, but maybe one of these years I'll have to get something else. I wonder if it would be better to do that or to get a Falcon with more than 4 mb of RAM. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 211 Sat Jan 16, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:10 EDT Jim, You might try putting Xcontrol in MDD as the last non-resident .ACC. That way it should do its thing after everything else is done. ------ Alan, Huh? OF COURSE Warp 9 puts the colors back if you have a color picture in the background, else the pictures would look pretty awful sometimes, right? It's also a way to get your default colors restored when you exit a program. ----------- >wonder if it would be better to do that or to get a Falcon with more >than 4 mb of RAM. Get the Falcon, definitely! ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 212 Sat Jan 16, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:04 EST Jim Renner, I don't think you'll have your "painting" problem if you boot up with nothing but XControl and MultiDesk installed (no other AUTO programs -- _nothing_ in MultiDesk, meaning MultiDesk's window is blank when you boot up). You can ensure that MultiDesk is blank by doing a "Clear All" and setting its MDX directory path to another directory so that no files match the extension (".XXX") and then save your setup (MULTDSK4.MLT for TT Medium). MultiDesk has nothing whatsoever to do with colors. Alan, Aha...yes, of course, Warp 9 must set the colors to that of the picture you wish to view. If you'd like other colors on your desktop, perhaps you can adjust the picture and its palette to your liking. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 5 Message 213 Sat Jan 16, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 20:51 EST Thanks to all those that responded to my question concering EdHak and CardFile. After I had posted my question here I started to RT(F)M and lo and behold right there in the EdHak manual page 2 (yes not very far) there is a paragraph about using EdHak with MMD. About that time all I could picture is my next AUTOPASS 1 with Aladdin and all the messages in this topic saying GET YOUR HEAD OUT YOUR A** ROGO and "RTFM". ;) One problem I am having though is with CardFile as an MDX (non-resident) when using it inside Aladdin, the screen goes funny and I seem to lose control of the program (CardFile) and the modem. This only happens when I try to use the dialer in CardFile. Well anyway I'm taking this question to the Aladdin RT's Problems topic. It seems to work okay inside of FLASH 1.6 though, but I have to check some more. Thanks again to all those replied. === Joe Rogo === Saturday, January 16, 1993 8:25 pm ------------